Category talk:Pigeon breeds

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Renaming

The category was fist listed for speedy renaming at WP:CFDS in this edit at 16:31, 15 September 2014‎ by SMcCandlish, where it remained unopposed for the next 71 hours, and was processed in this edit.

I do oppose. The (American) National Pigeon Association does handle the Diamond Dove and the Ringneck Dove as breeds.[1] Both are not a breed of Columba livia domestica, the Domestic Pigeon. They are not considered to be "domestic" at least in Europe. "Domesticated" (or more concisely "Domestic") is not redundant, it refers to Columba livia domestica. By creating that category, WP:PIGEONS wanted to be sure, that both, the Diamond Dove and the Ringneck Dove, are not part of that sub-category of the Category:Domestic pigeons. --PigeonIP (talk) 22:31, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP isn't bound to do what the NPA does. The NPA covering two non-domestic pigeon species as if they were breeds doesn't mean WP should blatantly lie and call them breeds. If the Cat Fanciers Association added the Bobcat and the Asian leopard cat to the cats that people could pedigree and show with them, and mislabeled them "breeds", it would utterly, inexcusably wrong for WP to call them domestic (or "domesticated") cat breeds. NPA doesn't classfy either of them as pigeons, but as "Doves" in their own category. This should be a full WP:CFD discussion. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 01:46, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Doves" within the NPA is the breeding group, as are "Color", "Frills & Owls", "Trumpeters" and others.[2]

If you are going to move all subcategories as well, you have to take that in count. At least with Category:Domesticated pigeon breeds originating in the United States, cause the Diamond Dove and the Ringneck Dove are considered to be breeds there... --PigeonIP (talk) 11:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again, WP is not going to blatantly lie and call those two domesticated breeds of anything, including of pigeons, just because some people keep them as pets. Our categorization system is based on reality, not on what one particular fancier organizations chooses to allow into its pedigree registry. For this reason, you will not find any wild cats Category:Cat breeds, despite the fact that certain wild cats can be registered as breeding stock of felid hybrids in certain cat registries (which is how the Bengal cat hybrid breed was created. Breed means domesticated by definition. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 00:00, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]